I am new too, but of course feel compelled to put in my own 2 worth...
i have planted a few boxes and one is near another at the Alamo. I
never stopped to think if someone would be "miffed" if i planted too
close to theirs, and my reaction to that thought is... why ever would
they be upset? it is Just that much more incentive to go search in
that area. sort of like gold mining why go for one nugget if you can
get a whole chest full...

--- In letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com, "Matthew Keeler"
wrote:
>
> Ok, so I'm a newbie with a few dozen finds and with a couple of
plants
> nearing readiness. However, mid-MO is really pretty thick with
> boxes. Does anyone have any guidance on "can there be too many boxes
> in one geographic area?" As it is, I find myself back in the same
> parks covering the same trails. Sure, that's great for the kids and
> me as seekers, but do I need to worry about other 'boxers getting
> miffed because I planted "to close" to theirs?
>
> RandomChimp
> Columbia, MO
>

Go to, or at least towards, STL. There is a poor, sad, lonely
letterboxer there (with fabulous boxes) that needs a fresh infusion.
geckospot

--- In letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com, "Matthew Keeler"
wrote:
However, mid-MO is really pretty thick with
> boxes. > RandomChimp
> Columbia, MO
>

That is sometimes a worry of mine. We had an incident in CT where
several densely letterboxed parks were hit by someone stealing the
boxes. Dozens of boxes went missing overnight. Other places with few
boxes were not hit.

The geocaching world has a requirement that caches be placed at least
1/10 mile apart. That is easy to check as they all have coordinates.
That spreads the caches out.

I like finding new parks when I go letterboxing. That is part of the
fun for me. So I like it when I can visit a park I did not know about
before. My suggestion is to find a park without any boxes and be the
first to plant a box there. Your visitors will be pleased.
The Bird Stamper


--- In letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com, "Matthew Keeler"
wrote:
>
> Ok, so I'm a newbie with a few dozen finds and with a couple of
plants
> nearing readiness. However, mid-MO is really pretty thick with
> boxes. Does anyone have any guidance on "can there be too many boxes
> in one geographic area?" As it is, I find myself back in the same
> parks covering the same trails. Sure, that's great for the kids and
> me as seekers, but do I need to worry about other 'boxers getting
> miffed because I planted "to close" to theirs?
>
> RandomChimp
> Columbia, MO
>

That 1/10 mile is so they can trample everything and discover the
letterboxes that are also hidden close by.
Getting close doesn't get you close enough. That's my major complaint
about geocaching.
geckospot

--- In letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com, "birder579a" >
The geocaching world has a requirement that caches be placed at least
> 1/10 mile apart. That is easy to check as they all have
coordinates. That spreads the caches out.
> The Bird Stamper

I'm going to try very hard to be charitable, here; my initial
rteaction was definitely of the "flame" variety, and I would just as
soon not get into that...

--- In letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com, "geckospot2000" wrote:
>
> That 1/10 mile is so they can trample everything and discover the
> letterboxes that are also hidden close by. Getting close doesn't get
> you close enough. That's my major complaint about geocaching.

Truly spoken like someone who does not know of what they are speaking.
The rule is to "prevent" trampling of the wilderness. I would have
taken the first two sentences as mere sarcasm had you not written the
third one, which shows that you were being serious in your comments.
As someone who does both caching and boxing, I take umbrage at those
on either side who show a lack of knowledge of the other, and display
it as you did. I've written often enough in here about the
differences, and the similarities, between the two. You don't have to
enjoy both; you can certainly choose to only do one, or the other;
most people do only one. I don't get that narrow attitude, but
whatever. In the future, I would ask that you learn a little more
about the subject of your displeasure before you attack it.

> --- In letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com, "birder579a" wrote:

> The geocaching world has a requirement that caches be placed at
> least 1/10 mile apart. That is easy to check as they all have
> coordinates. That spreads the caches out.

Exactly :-) Obviously you *do* know a fair amount about that game.
The rule helps keep things from getting so full of caches that an area
is in risk of being trashed.

Considering that there is a recent thread about confusing LBs and
caches, let me state that I've run into this at least five times. In
two of them, the cache had been there for more than a year before the
LB, in one the LB had at least a couple of years on the cache; can't
recall the situation in the others. The only reason I remember the
two so well is that one of former is the first LB I ever found, and
the other was at a spot that I was showing to a friend. He'd just
started caching a few months before; the cache there had been planted
just after my last visit, more than a year before that. While looking
for the cache we found a letterbox that had only been there a couple
of months. I hadn't even thought to look in the listings before we
visited, as it is a couple of hundred miles from home :-o Yeah, I
learned my lesson! Anyway, the LB owner knew about the cache, and
made a point to write in the box that it was *not* the cache, but
invited cachers who found it to sign the log, but please leave the
stamp. Several cachers signed the log and made positive comments :-)
Two other LBs in this situation also had notes to that effect. And
at least a couple of the caches in that situation have had notes
warning people not to disturb a nearby LB. I can't speak for the East
Coast, but maybe we're just easier-going about all of this Way Out
West. I never hear about major conflicts between boxing and caching
in California; too many of us do both :-)

It isn't hard for LBers to find out if there are nearby caches where
they want to hide a letterbox: Google Maps is your friend :-) Cachers
are becoming more aware of letterboxes; I've done my very small part
in that area, and will continue to try to educate geocachers. TPtB in
geocaching have made a point to try to educate cachers about LB, and
have long provided a link to LbNA. I would really like to see less
confrontation and disapproval between the two groups, as they each
have a lot to offer the other.

chaosmanor

--- In letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com, "geckospot2000"
wrote:
>
> That 1/10 mile is so they can trample everything and discover the
> letterboxes that are also hidden close by.
> Getting close doesn't get you close enough. That's my major
complaint
> about geocaching.
> geckospot
>

That's not fair! The geocache coords get you within a 50 foot circle
and the find is usually a piece of cake. Geocachers are as worried
about leaving a mark on nature as letterboxers. If letterboxers would
put a coord on their Lb, geocachers would know where they are and plant
accordingly, but until letterboxers and geocachers start talking there
is going to be overlap.

There are two that I know or that the geocacher warns potential finders
that the Lbs are in the area...has worked out so far.

> If letterboxers would put a coord on their Lb, geocachers would
> know where they are and plant accordingly,

That's like saying -- if geocachers would lose the coordinates and
describe precisely and specifically exactly where the thing is,
there would be no overlap :)

Exacty Chaosmanor, well said. Thanks.

Lone R

jim54invc wrote: I'm going to try very hard to be charitable, here; my initial
rteaction was definitely of the "flame" variety, and I would just as
soon not get into that...

--- In letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com, "geckospot2000" wrote:
>
> That 1/10 mile is so they can trample everything and discover the
> letterboxes that are also hidden close by. Getting close doesn't get
> you close enough. That's my major complaint about geocaching.

Truly spoken like someone who does not know of what they are speaking.
The rule is to "prevent" trampling of the wilderness. I would have
taken the first two sentences as mere sarcasm had you not written the
third one, which shows that you were being serious in your comments.
As someone who does both caching and boxing, I take umbrage at those
on either side who show a lack of knowledge of the other, and display
it as you did. I've written often enough in here about the
differences, and the similarities, between the two. You don't have to
enjoy both; you can certainly choose to only do one, or the other;
most people do only one. I don't get that narrow attitude, but
whatever. In the future, I would ask that you learn a little more
about the subject of your displeasure before you attack it.

> --- In letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com, "birder579a" wrote:

> The geocaching world has a requirement that caches be placed at
> least 1/10 mile apart. That is easy to check as they all have
> coordinates. That spreads the caches out.

Exactly :-) Obviously you *do* know a fair amount about that game.
The rule helps keep things from getting so full of caches that an area
is in risk of being trashed.

Considering that there is a recent thread about confusing LBs and
caches, let me state that I've run into this at least five times. In
two of them, the cache had been there for more than a year before the
LB, in one the LB had at least a couple of years on the cache; can't
recall the situation in the others. The only reason I remember the
two so well is that one of former is the first LB I ever found, and
the other was at a spot that I was showing to a friend. He'd just
started caching a few months before; the cache there had been planted
just after my last visit, more than a year before that. While looking
for the cache we found a letterbox that had only been there a couple
of months. I hadn't even thought to look in the listings before we
visited, as it is a couple of hundred miles from home :-o Yeah, I
learned my lesson! Anyway, the LB owner knew about the cache, and
made a point to write in the box that it was *not* the cache, but
invited cachers who found it to sign the log, but please leave the
stamp. Several cachers signed the log and made positive comments :-)
Two other LBs in this situation also had notes to that effect. And
at least a couple of the caches in that situation have had notes
warning people not to disturb a nearby LB. I can't speak for the East
Coast, but maybe we're just easier-going about all of this Way Out
West. I never hear about major conflicts between boxing and caching
in California; too many of us do both :-)

It isn't hard for LBers to find out if there are nearby caches where
they want to hide a letterbox: Google Maps is your friend :-) Cachers
are becoming more aware of letterboxes; I've done my very small part
in that area, and will continue to try to educate geocachers. TPtB in
geocaching have made a point to try to educate cachers about LB, and
have long provided a link to LbNA. I would really like to see less
confrontation and disapproval between the two groups, as they each
have a lot to offer the other.

chaosmanor






[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

It's great to hear from fellow geocacher/letterboxers. I too enjoy both hobbies and I'll add my experience.

I was out today looking for a letterbox. The clues said to look in the direction of the large tree by the river. I checked the base and surrounding area of the first large tree, not there. There were 2 other largish trees along the river so I went a checked those too, covering about 30x25 square feet of area as I walked from tree to tree and checked around each one. The box was not there. So I went back to the first tree and looked around the base again then as I was ready to give up and head back to the car I looked down and spotted a small rock pile and through the space between the rocks I saw plastic. Aha, got it!

I would guess that such a search may be typical for many letterboxers. The clues don't take to right to the box, there's still some searching to do and you may have to check a few trees, stumps, rocks, ledges etc before you find it. And like in the example above, sometimes you're in the right area but don't see the box right away so you search elsewhere before you return to the right location for a closer look. A 30-50 square foot circle of searching is probably quite normal for both geocache searches and letterbox searches.

Lone R

Baker wrote: --- In letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com, "geckospot2000"
wrote:
>
> That 1/10 mile is so they can trample everything and discover the
> letterboxes that are also hidden close by.
> Getting close doesn't get you close enough. That's my major
complaint
> about geocaching.
> geckospot
>

That's not fair! The geocache coords get you within a 50 foot circle
and the find is usually a piece of cake. Geocachers are as worried
about leaving a mark on nature as letterboxers. If letterboxers would
put a coord on their Lb, geocachers would know where they are and plant
accordingly, but until letterboxers and geocachers start talking there
is going to be overlap.

There are two that I know or that the geocacher warns potential finders
that the Lbs are in the area...has worked out so far.






[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Can someone just delete me.. I don't have login that works anymore.. thanks
so much!!



From: letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com [mailto:letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com]
On Behalf Of R
Sent: Tuesday, May 06, 2008 8:43 PM
To: letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [LbNA] Re: Planting too dense?



It's great to hear from fellow geocacher/letterboxers. I too enjoy both
hobbies and I'll add my experience.

I was out today looking for a letterbox. The clues said to look in the
direction of the large tree by the river. I checked the base and surrounding
area of the first large tree, not there. There were 2 other largish trees
along the river so I went a checked those too, covering about 30x25 square
feet of area as I walked from tree to tree and checked around each one. The
box was not there. So I went back to the first tree and looked around the
base again then as I was ready to give up and head back to the car I looked
down and spotted a small rock pile and through the space between the rocks I
saw plastic. Aha, got it!

I would guess that such a search may be typical for many letterboxers. The
clues don't take to right to the box, there's still some searching to do and
you may have to check a few trees, stumps, rocks, ledges etc before you find
it. And like in the example above, sometimes you're in the right area but
don't see the box right away so you search elsewhere before you return to
the right location for a closer look. A 30-50 square foot circle of
searching is probably quite normal for both geocache searches and letterbox
searches.

Lone R

Baker > wrote:
--- In letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com
, "geckospot2000"
wrote:
>
> That 1/10 mile is so they can trample everything and discover the
> letterboxes that are also hidden close by.
> Getting close doesn't get you close enough. That's my major
complaint
> about geocaching.
> geckospot
>

That's not fair! The geocache coords get you within a 50 foot circle
and the find is usually a piece of cake. Geocachers are as worried
about leaving a mark on nature as letterboxers. If letterboxers would
put a coord on their Lb, geocachers would know where they are and plant
accordingly, but until letterboxers and geocachers start talking there
is going to be overlap.

There are two that I know or that the geocacher warns potential finders
that the Lbs are in the area...has worked out so far.





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Baker wrote:
> If letterboxers would
> put a coord on their Lb, geocachers would know where they are and plant
> accordingly,


Oh good, you're buying me a GPS!

--
Nathan Brown

AKA Cyclonic
Penncoasters.com

The Insensitivity rolls on...

Vader '08
Come, join the Empire!

McCarthy was RIGHT!!!

No, he's buying ME a GPS. And I'll let you use it sometimes. =)

Sheba

Nathan Brown wrote: Baker wrote:
> If letterboxers would
> put a coord on their Lb, geocachers would know where they are and plant
> accordingly,


Oh good, you're buying me a GPS!

--
Nathan Brown

AKA Cyclonic
Penncoasters.com

The Insensitivity rolls on...

Vader '08
Come, join the Empire!

McCarthy was RIGHT!!!


------------------------------------

Yahoo! Groups Links






---------------------------------
Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Depending upon your type of GPS, the area tree cover, the cloud
cover, the planet alignment :) etc...that 50 ft GPS circle your
describing is often a 'bit' larger and also tends to 'jump' around on
occassion. I'm not saying it doesn't work - but it's not perfect.
And depending upon how the cache placement is described, you often
have to look in numerous spots - because many of them look the same
in that 50+ish foot radius

--- In letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com, "Baker"
wrote:
>
> --- In letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com, "geckospot2000"
> wrote:
> >
> > That 1/10 mile is so they can trample everything and discover the
> > letterboxes that are also hidden close by.
> > Getting close doesn't get you close enough. That's my major
> complaint
> > about geocaching.
> > geckospot
> >
>
> That's not fair! The geocache coords get you within a 50 foot
circle
> and the find is usually a piece of cake. Geocachers are as worried
> about leaving a mark on nature as letterboxers. If letterboxers
would
> put a coord on their Lb, geocachers would know where they are and
plant
> accordingly, but until letterboxers and geocachers start talking
there
> is going to be overlap.
>
> There are two that I know or that the geocacher warns potential
finders
> that the Lbs are in the area...has worked out so far.
>

Another good defense is not to plant in THE obvious spot. The one you see from the trail, and think "Wow, what a great place for a box,,,,"--well, that's the one cachers are going to home in on. Pass that one up, leave it for the geocachers.

Cases in point--I have 2 boxes in close proximity to caches. The first one has a permit from the park & has been in place about 2 years. As of a few months ago there is a cache that's no more than 15 feet away--but it's not a problem, because the cache is in the obvious place at the scenic overlook. My box is tucked into the rocks all the way at the back, and nobody's going to start looking there.

With the other box, when I got to the spot where I wanted to plant, I found there was a geocache already there. But again, it was in the obvious place--big old ammo box next to a very distinctive tree right on trail, with branches like a lean-to "concealing" it. Nobody could not find that cache! And once they do, nobody's going to come looking any further back in the woods where my letterbox is....

Some caches make good neighbors. =)

Sheba



Baker wrote:until letterboxers and geocachers start talking there
is going to be overlap.

There are two that I know or that the geocacher warns potential finders
that the Lbs are in the area...has worked out so far.




---------------------------------
Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

--- In letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com, Randy Hall wrote:
>
>
> > If letterboxers would put a coord on their Lb, geocachers would
> > know where they are and plant accordingly,
>
> That's like saying -- if geocachers would lose the coordinates and
> describe precisely and specifically exactly where the thing is,
> there would be no overlap :)
>

Yeah, but the important thing would be if letterboxers and geocacher
would at least be aware of each other in the area. The geocachers are
used to letting the GPS tell them where to go, and I am guessing they
won't be patient enough to follow letterboxer clues to see if they of
far enough away from a letterbox. I know it would be hard, but as both
hobbies grow there is going to be a lot more overlap.

You can get accurate Gps coords using a topo mape and a scale. Close
enough to put a coord that is +/- 150 feet. That would be good enough.

Hope that helps.


--- In letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com, Nathan Brown
wrote:
>
> Baker wrote:
> > If letterboxers would
> > put a coord on their Lb, geocachers would know where they are and
plant
> > accordingly,
>
>
> Oh good, you're buying me a GPS!
>
> --
> Nathan Brown
>
> AKA Cyclonic
> Penncoasters.com
>
> The Insensitivity rolls on...
>
> Vader '08
> Come, join the Empire!
>
> McCarthy was RIGHT!!!
>

Baker wrote:
> You can get accurate Gps coords using a topo mape and a scale. Close
> enough to put a coord that is +/- 150 feet. That would be good enough.
>
> Hope that helps.
>

That still doesn't buy me a GPS.

--
Nathan Brown

AKA Cyclonic
Penncoasters.com

The Insensitivity rolls on...

Vader '08
Come, join the Empire!

McCarthy was RIGHT!!!

Some folks just don't get a good joke when they see one.

Well, you can flame ME all ya want :-) but..................

In the few years I've been out letterboxing -- about 5 or 6 now -- I haven't
run directly into that many geocachers. Maybe a dozen times or so, maybe a
few more than a dozen.

But they were busy trashing the surrounding environment trying to find a
cache every. single. time.

So count me amongst those who has come to detest geocachers. I'm sure there
are responsible geocachers out there. I just haven't met up with any yet on
the trail. At least I sure hope there are some responsible ones out there.
There's nothing as good for promoting responsible environmental habits as
giving exact clues to the location of a box at the very end of the clues.
Just because of all the idiots who really don't give a hoot about the
environment.

The times they are a'changin'. The environment out there is not a videogame
that's going to return everything to "normal-just-as-it-was" condition when
the gamer shuts down the game and walks away from their computer. I think
there are many folks who either don't quite realize that or who just don't
care. The "rule", as you state, might be one thing. What folks are
actually doing may be something else completely. Kind of like the "rule" of
the 55mph speed limit. :-)

~~ Mosey ~~

-----Original Message-----
From: letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of jim54invc
Sent: Tuesday, May 06, 2008 3:44 PM
To: letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [LbNA] Re: Planting too dense?


I'm going to try very hard to be charitable, here; my initial
rteaction was definitely of the "flame" variety, and I would just as
soon not get into that...

--- In letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com, "geckospot2000" wrote:
>
> That 1/10 mile is so they can trample everything and discover the
> letterboxes that are also hidden close by. Getting close doesn't get
> you close enough. That's my major complaint about geocaching.

Truly spoken like someone who does not know of what they are speaking.
The rule is to "prevent" trampling of the wilderness. I would have
taken the first two sentences as mere sarcasm had you not written the
third one, which shows that you were being serious in your comments.
As someone who does both caching and boxing, I take umbrage at those
on either side who show a lack of knowledge of the other, and display
it as you did. I've written often enough in here about the
differences, and the similarities, between the two. You don't have to
enjoy both; you can certainly choose to only do one, or the other;
most people do only one. I don't get that narrow attitude, but
whatever. In the future, I would ask that you learn a little more
about the subject of your displeasure before you attack it.

> --- In letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com, "birder579a" wrote:

> The geocaching world has a requirement that caches be placed at
> least 1/10 mile apart. That is easy to check as they all have
> coordinates. That spreads the caches out.

Exactly :-) Obviously you *do* know a fair amount about that game.
The rule helps keep things from getting so full of caches that an area
is in risk of being trashed.

Considering that there is a recent thread about confusing LBs and
caches, let me state that I've run into this at least five times. In
two of them, the cache had been there for more than a year before the
LB, in one the LB had at least a couple of years on the cache; can't
recall the situation in the others. The only reason I remember the
two so well is that one of former is the first LB I ever found, and
the other was at a spot that I was showing to a friend. He'd just
started caching a few months before; the cache there had been planted
just after my last visit, more than a year before that. While looking
for the cache we found a letterbox that had only been there a couple
of months. I hadn't even thought to look in the listings before we
visited, as it is a couple of hundred miles from home :-o Yeah, I
learned my lesson! Anyway, the LB owner knew about the cache, and
made a point to write in the box that it was *not* the cache, but
invited cachers who found it to sign the log, but please leave the
stamp. Several cachers signed the log and made positive comments :-)
Two other LBs in this situation also had notes to that effect. And
at least a couple of the caches in that situation have had notes
warning people not to disturb a nearby LB. I can't speak for the East
Coast, but maybe we're just easier-going about all of this Way Out
West. I never hear about major conflicts between boxing and caching
in California; too many of us do both :-)

It isn't hard for LBers to find out if there are nearby caches where
they want to hide a letterbox: Google Maps is your friend :-) Cachers
are becoming more aware of letterboxes; I've done my very small part
in that area, and will continue to try to educate geocachers. TPtB in
geocaching have made a point to try to educate cachers about LB, and
have long provided a link to LbNA. I would really like to see less
confrontation and disapproval between the two groups, as they each
have a lot to offer the other.

chaosmanor


------------------------------------

Yahoo! Groups Links

I have nothing against geocaching overall. BUT. I will say that it has
been very frustrating to have found about 5 letterboxes in the last 3ish
years that had been mistaken for a geocache. Stamp gone, trinkets left
instead. I don't know how anyone can open a letterbox, see a stamp and log
book and decide it's a geocache. Certainly heartbreaking to have to tell a
planter what has happened to their box. Even some with THIS IS A LETTERBOX
written on/in it.

I'm sure there are many responsible cachers along with irresponsible ones,
just like in letterboxing.

RIFamily
=62693/stime=1210172754/nc1=4767086/nc2=4507179/nc3=5170419>



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Exactly. Although some geocaches get retired too soon, I often
purposely seek out the location of a cache before planting just so that
I know that 1/10 mi area is already protected.
--- In letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com, Suzanne Coe wrote:
> Some caches make good neighbors. =)

Guess we have been lucky, the geocachers have left the box intact and have been very courteous with leaving nice messages. This "geocache" mentality has some advantages like them leaving some interesting tidbits in the box. Example...a harmonica,peace signs,coins,lots of business size cards of all sorts. These are good things to liven up a LB.

Peace and Love ......

budster of the Catskills
_____________________________________________________________
Click here to find all of your computer accessories for less!
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I suggest, for those letterbox planters who fear that a geocacher may
accidentally discover your box and trade-out your stamp, that you put a
very short attention-getting note in your letterbox explaining what a
letterbox is and how to play the game. I leave a little yellow business
card size note
-do-not-trade-large.gif> that says, "Please leave the stamp in the
box. No trades. If you carry a personal letterbox "passport", take an
impression of the letterbox's stamp. If you carry a signature stamp,
leave an impression in the logbook." I also write with permanent ink on
the backside of the stamp "Leave in box. Do not trade."

It has worked for me. I've been letterboxing since 2002 and only had one
stamp traded-out from a letterbox because, in that case, I didn't put in
the note and I didn't write on the back of the stamp. It was promptly
returned to me when I contacted the cacher (he left an online log on
gc.com saying that he traded for the stamp).

Lone R

--- In letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com, "rifamily" wrote:
>
> I have nothing against geocaching overall. BUT. I will say that it
has
> been very frustrating to have found about 5 letterboxes in the last
3ish
> years that had been mistaken for a geocache. Stamp gone, trinkets
left
> instead. I don't know how anyone can open a letterbox, see a stamp
and log
> book and decide it's a geocache. Certainly heartbreaking to have to
tell a
> planter what has happened to their box. Even some with THIS IS A
LETTERBOX
> written on/in it.
>
> I'm sure there are many responsible cachers along with irresponsible
ones,
> just like in letterboxing.
>
> RIFamily
>
sgId
> =62693/stime=1210172754/nc1=4767086/nc2=4507179/nc3=5170419>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I, personally, would remove the trinkets ASAP, because
a stray geocacher might easily think, hmmm, the best
thing in here is the STAMP!

I don't think I've had geocachers find any of my
boxes, but I have certainly seen many signed in other
folks' logs, and the ones you see still intact, the
messages are indeed very kind and happy about finding
a different kind of treasure. No problem with those,
of course.

A box I found last weekend has been found almost
entirely by kids playing in the area. Their notes
were sweet, but personally, if it was my box, I would
find a much better hiding place. And if geocachers
kept logging in, I would also move my box.

Mommo


--- "budster2@juno.com" wrote:

> Guess we have been lucky, the geocachers have left
> the box intact and have been very courteous with
> leaving nice messages. This "geocache" mentality
> has some advantages like them leaving some
> interesting tidbits in the box. Example...a
> harmonica,peace signs,coins,lots of business size
> cards of all sorts. These are good things to liven
> up a LB.
>
> Peace and Love ......
>
> budster of the Catskills
>
_____________________________________________________________
> Click here to find all of your computer accessories
> for less!
>
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>
>
>



____________________________________________________________________________________
Be a better friend, newshound, and
know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ

I agree. Not to mention that if the box fills up with trinkets, some of
them could gouge/damage the stamp. We've seen some boxes that had so much
"stuff" inside them that the lid wouldn't close properly. Also, if you get
a lot of geocachers logging in, you'll need to replace the logbook more
often. When we found some geocache "stuff" in one our boxes we got rid of
the "stuff" (but kept the $1.25 that was in it!)

Wisconsin Hiker

-----Original Message-----
From: letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com [mailto:letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com]On
Behalf Of Mary Erickson
Sent: Wednesday, May 07, 2008 8:31 PM
To: letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [LbNA] Re: Planting too dense?


I, personally, would remove the trinkets ASAP, because
a stray geocacher might easily think, hmmm, the best
thing in here is the STAMP!

I don't think I've had geocachers find any of my
boxes, but I have certainly seen many signed in other
folks' logs, and the ones you see still intact, the
messages are indeed very kind and happy about finding
a different kind of treasure. No problem with those,
of course.

A box I found last weekend has been found almost
entirely by kids playing in the area. Their notes
were sweet, but personally, if it was my box, I would
find a much better hiding place. And if geocachers
kept logging in, I would also move my box.

Mommo

.



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I want to plant a box now that you have to drop in a
dollar. j/k :)

Leapin' Lizards

--- Debbie Kotlarek wrote:

> I agree. Not to mention that if the box fills up
> with trinkets, some of
> them could gouge/damage the stamp. We've seen some
> boxes that had so much
> "stuff" inside them that the lid wouldn't close
> properly. Also, if you get
> a lot of geocachers logging in, you'll need to
> replace the logbook more
> often. When we found some geocache "stuff" in one
> our boxes we got rid of
> the "stuff" (but kept the $1.25 that was in it!)
>
> Wisconsin Hiker
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com
> [mailto:letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com]On
> Behalf Of Mary Erickson
> Sent: Wednesday, May 07, 2008 8:31 PM
> To: letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: RE: [LbNA] Re: Planting too dense?
>
>
> I, personally, would remove the trinkets ASAP,
> because
> a stray geocacher might easily think, hmmm, the best
> thing in here is the STAMP!
>
> I don't think I've had geocachers find any of my
> boxes, but I have certainly seen many signed in
> other
> folks' logs, and the ones you see still intact, the
> messages are indeed very kind and happy about
> finding
> a different kind of treasure. No problem with those,
> of course.
>
> A box I found last weekend has been found almost
> entirely by kids playing in the area. Their notes
> were sweet, but personally, if it was my box, I
> would
> find a much better hiding place. And if geocachers
> kept logging in, I would also move my box.
>
> Mommo
>
> .
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been
> removed]
>
>



____________________________________________________________________________________
Be a better friend, newshound, and
know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ

I agree with Sheba on this. Over the years, I have had several letterboxes within a few feet/yards of geocaches. The trick is to be sure the geocache is the first thing they are going to find when they arrive at that spot -- like she said, leave the obvious spot for the cache and nobody will look any further for the LB except the boxers who know this is where the LB will be. Now it does greatly increase boxing frustration for some people and I receive quite a lot of mail on these boxes stating that all they found when they got there was a geocache. But once assured they were in the right spot, they usually go back and find the box once they look deeper. For the most part I have had very little trouble co-existing with geocaches when I follow this rule of thumb. And of course -- clearly labeling the box that it is a LB.

SpringChick


----- Original Message -----
From: Suzanne Coe
To: letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, May 06, 2008 10:05 PM
Subject: Re: [LbNA] Re: Planting too dense?


Another good defense is not to plant in THE obvious spot. The one you see from the trail, and think "Wow, what a great place for a box,,,,"--well, that's the one cachers are going to home in on. Pass that one up, leave it for the geocachers.

Cases in point--I have 2 boxes in close proximity to caches. The first one has a permit from the park & has been in place about 2 years. As of a few months ago there is a cache that's no more than 15 feet away--but it's not a problem, because the cache is in the obvious place at the scenic overlook. My box is tucked into the rocks all the way at the back, and nobody's going to start looking there.

With the other box, when I got to the spot where I wanted to plant, I found there was a geocache already there. But again, it was in the obvious place--big old ammo box next to a very distinctive tree right on trail, with branches like a lean-to "concealing" it. Nobody could not find that cache! And once they do, nobody's going to come looking any further back in the woods where my letterbox is....

Some caches make good neighbors. =)

Sheba

Baker wrote:until letterboxers and geocachers start talking there
is going to be overlap.

There are two that I know or that the geocacher warns potential finders
that the Lbs are in the area...has worked out so far.

---------------------------------
Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I'm a responsible Geocacher. Leave nor trace.

Baker LnNA
Baker63 geocaher


--- In letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com, "xxxxxxxx"
wrote:
>
> Well, you can flame ME all ya want :-) but..................
>
> In the few years I've been out letterboxing -- about 5 or 6 now --
I haven't
> run directly into that many geocachers. Maybe a dozen times or so,
maybe a
> few more than a dozen.
>
> But they were busy trashing the surrounding environment trying to
find a
> cache every. single. time.
>
> So count me amongst those who has come to detest geocachers. I'm
sure there
> are responsible geocachers out there. I just haven't met up with
any yet on
> the trail. At least I sure hope there are some responsible ones
out there.
> There's nothing as good for promoting responsible environmental
habits as
> giving exact clues to the location of a box at the very end of the
clues.
> Just because of all the idiots who really don't give a hoot about
the
> environment.
>
> The times they are a'changin'. The environment out there is not a
videogame
> that's going to return everything to "normal-just-as-it-was"
condition when
> the gamer shuts down the game and walks away from their computer.
I think
> there are many folks who either don't quite realize that or who
just don't
> care. The "rule", as you state, might be one thing. What folks are
> actually doing may be something else completely. Kind of like
the "rule" of
> the 55mph speed limit. :-)
>
> ~~ Mosey ~~
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com
> [mailto:letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of jim54invc
> Sent: Tuesday, May 06, 2008 3:44 PM
> To: letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [LbNA] Re: Planting too dense?
>
>
> I'm going to try very hard to be charitable, here; my initial
> rteaction was definitely of the "flame" variety, and I would just as
> soon not get into that...
>
> --- In letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com, "geckospot2000" wrote:
> >
> > That 1/10 mile is so they can trample everything and discover the
> > letterboxes that are also hidden close by. Getting close doesn't
get
> > you close enough. That's my major complaint about geocaching.
>
> Truly spoken like someone who does not know of what they are
speaking.
> The rule is to "prevent" trampling of the wilderness. I would have
> taken the first two sentences as mere sarcasm had you not written
the
> third one, which shows that you were being serious in your comments.
> As someone who does both caching and boxing, I take umbrage at those
> on either side who show a lack of knowledge of the other, and
display
> it as you did. I've written often enough in here about the
> differences, and the similarities, between the two. You don't have
to
> enjoy both; you can certainly choose to only do one, or the other;
> most people do only one. I don't get that narrow attitude, but
> whatever. In the future, I would ask that you learn a little more
> about the subject of your displeasure before you attack it.
>
> > --- In letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com, "birder579a" wrote:
>
> > The geocaching world has a requirement that caches be placed at
> > least 1/10 mile apart. That is easy to check as they all have
> > coordinates. That spreads the caches out.
>
> Exactly :-) Obviously you *do* know a fair amount about that game.
> The rule helps keep things from getting so full of caches that an
area
> is in risk of being trashed.
>
> Considering that there is a recent thread about confusing LBs and
> caches, let me state that I've run into this at least five times.
In
> two of them, the cache had been there for more than a year before
the
> LB, in one the LB had at least a couple of years on the cache; can't
> recall the situation in the others. The only reason I remember the
> two so well is that one of former is the first LB I ever found, and
> the other was at a spot that I was showing to a friend. He'd just
> started caching a few months before; the cache there had been
planted
> just after my last visit, more than a year before that. While
looking
> for the cache we found a letterbox that had only been there a couple
> of months. I hadn't even thought to look in the listings before we
> visited, as it is a couple of hundred miles from home :-o Yeah, I
> learned my lesson! Anyway, the LB owner knew about the cache, and
> made a point to write in the box that it was *not* the cache, but
> invited cachers who found it to sign the log, but please leave the
> stamp. Several cachers signed the log and made positive comments :-
)
> Two other LBs in this situation also had notes to that effect. And
> at least a couple of the caches in that situation have had notes
> warning people not to disturb a nearby LB. I can't speak for the
East
> Coast, but maybe we're just easier-going about all of this Way Out
> West. I never hear about major conflicts between boxing and caching
> in California; too many of us do both :-)
>
> It isn't hard for LBers to find out if there are nearby caches where
> they want to hide a letterbox: Google Maps is your friend :-)
Cachers
> are becoming more aware of letterboxes; I've done my very small part
> in that area, and will continue to try to educate geocachers. TPtB
in
> geocaching have made a point to try to educate cachers about LB, and
> have long provided a link to LbNA. I would really like to see less
> confrontation and disapproval between the two groups, as they each
> have a lot to offer the other.
>
> chaosmanor
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>

I have run into this once. Probably newbies.



--- In letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com, "rifamily" wrote:
>
> I have nothing against geocaching overall. BUT. I will say that
it has
> been very frustrating to have found about 5 letterboxes in the last
3ish
> years that had been mistaken for a geocache. Stamp gone, trinkets
left
> instead. I don't know how anyone can open a letterbox, see a stamp
and log
> book and decide it's a geocache. Certainly heartbreaking to have
to tell a
> planter what has happened to their box. Even some with THIS IS A
LETTERBOX
> written on/in it.
>
> I'm sure there are many responsible cachers along with
irresponsible ones,
> just like in letterboxing.
>
> RIFamily
> s=97359714/grpId=1114407/grpspId=1705065786/msgId
> =62693/stime=1210172754/nc1=4767086/nc2=4507179/nc3=5170419>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

I have always had good results when I ask the geocacher to post a
note in their clues that there is a leterbox near their cache, and I
post a note in my clues that there is a geocache near my box. So far
that has done the trick to keep the two from being confused.

Also before I plant a box I check to see if there are any other
letterboxes or geocaches in the area. I will change my planting
location to keep 300 feet away from any cache.

I have a GPS so I record the coords of my boxes. Then about once a
year I check to see if any caches were planted near my boxes. I
email the cache planter and I get good cooperation.
The Bird Stamper


--- In letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com, "SpringChick"
wrote:
>
> I agree with Sheba on this. Over the years, I have had several
letterboxes within a few feet/yards of geocaches. The trick is to be
sure the geocache is the first thing they are going to find when they
arrive at that spot -- like she said, leave the obvious spot for the
cache and nobody will look any further for the LB except the boxers
who know this is where the LB will be. Now it does greatly increase
boxing frustration for some people and I receive quite a lot of mail
on these boxes stating that all they found when they got there was a
geocache. But once assured they were in the right spot, they usually
go back and find the box once they look deeper. For the most part I
have had very little trouble co-existing with geocaches when I follow
this rule of thumb. And of course -- clearly labeling the box that
it is a LB.
>
> SpringChick
>

I have seen this in my area, where the Lb's and the geocacher each
make a note in their clue.



--- In letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com, "birder579a"
wrote:
>
> I have always had good results when I ask the geocacher to post a
> note in their clues that there is a leterbox near their cache, and
I
> post a note in my clues that there is a geocache near my box. So
far
> that has done the trick to keep the two from being confused.
>
> Also before I plant a box I check to see if there are any other
> letterboxes or geocaches in the area. I will change my planting
> location to keep 300 feet away from any cache.
>
> I have a GPS so I record the coords of my boxes. Then about once a
> year I check to see if any caches were planted near my boxes. I
> email the cache planter and I get good cooperation.
> The Bird Stamper
>
>
> --- In letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com, "SpringChick"
> wrote:
> >
> > I agree with Sheba on this. Over the years, I have had several
> letterboxes within a few feet/yards of geocaches. The trick is to
be
> sure the geocache is the first thing they are going to find when
they
> arrive at that spot -- like she said, leave the obvious spot for
the
> cache and nobody will look any further for the LB except the boxers
> who know this is where the LB will be. Now it does greatly
increase
> boxing frustration for some people and I receive quite a lot of
mail
> on these boxes stating that all they found when they got there was
a
> geocache. But once assured they were in the right spot, they
usually
> go back and find the box once they look deeper. For the most part
I
> have had very little trouble co-existing with geocaches when I
follow
> this rule of thumb. And of course -- clearly labeling the box that
> it is a LB.
> >
> > SpringChick
> >
>